Maddy_mybb_import1968
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Exact la asta ma gandeam si eu....presupunand ca exista acea organizatie care frea sa elimine 90% din populatie:
-
Bine ati venit! Acesta este noul server al forumului Cutremur.net!
Gripa porcina sau A/H1N1
- Autor subiect Bogdan
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Exact la asta ma gandeam si eu....presupunand ca exista acea organizatie care frea sa elimine 90% din populatie:
Maddy_mybb_import1968
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Exact la asta ma gandeam si eu....presupunand ca exista acea organizatie care vrea sa elimine 90% din populatie:green:: un virus cu mortalitatea ridicata, indiferent de unde provine, este instrumentul cel mai potrivit. Iar daca cineva se apuca sa gaseasca un vaccin tot ce are \"organizatia\" de facut este sa discrediteze acest vaccin( net-ul fiind cea mai rapida si eficienta cale..).
Cred ca incep sa gandesc si eu in stil \"conspiratia conspiratiei..\", cred ca ar trebui sa reduc \"doza\" se filme SF.:55:
Alex
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In general ma feresc sa atribui valoare de fals sau adevarat 100% unei informatii, indiferent de unde provine. Nu exista adevar absolut si nu exista fals absolut.
Originea virusului poate fi artificiala (creat de oameni si scapat dintr-un laborator accidental sau nu) la fel de bine cum poate fi si naturala. Ne lipsesc informatiile care sa sustina oricare dintre ipoteze. Cert este ca acest lucru conteaza mai putin. Ceea ce este de interes este faptul ca suntem in contact cu acest virus si trebuie sa stim cum sa facem managementul acestei situatii.
Referitor la declaratiile care spun ca 90% din populatie poate fi decimata cu un virus pot spune ca sunt extrem de hazardate. Pandemia de gripa cu cele mai multe victime din istorie este cea din 1918 iar aceasta a dus la moartea a 3% din populatia globului. Departe de o tinta de 90% cum se spune ca s-ar dori. Daca chiar cineva ar tinde spre aceasta cifra nu ar folosi un virus ineficient pentru acest lucru, sub nici o forma nu te apuci sa construiesti un bloc folosind doar niste lopatzele de plastic si nisip.
Treaba cu terminarea rezervelor de petrol s-a mai discutat pe aici, http://www.cutremur.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=525 si am gasit informatii care arata foarte clar ca lucrurile nu sunt chiar atat de negre pe cat par.
Am gasit despre vaccinul anti gripa porcina ca unul din producatori intr-adevar realizeaza vaccinul folosind culturi de celule (fata de ou) pentru a putea fi administrat si celor care sunt alergici la oua. Nu este vorba de celule neoplazice ci de tesut renal de la o specie de maimute. Tehnologia este folosita din 1962.
Referitor la Polonia, dincolo de niste interese economice clare, ar putea avea si ei partea lor de dreptate. Problema e data mai mult de decizia unor foruri superioare (UE) care nu convine Poloniei. Polonia considera ca are resursele necesare pentru a stapani efectele pandemiei pe teritoriul sau si ca poate face managementul acestei situatii cu resurse proprii.
De ce se face atat tam-tam cu pandemia asta? Cred ca este o cauza care contine urmatoarele componente:
1. exista riscul ca virusul sa aiba niste mutatii care sa il faca mult mai periculos
2. companiile de farmaceutice si-au rotunjit frumusel veniturile (eventual mai scapam si de stocurile vechi, la Matei Bals s-a distribuit Tamiflu care expira fix in noiembrie 2009!!)
3. cand teama cuprinde masele de oameni acestea sunt mult mai usor de manipulat
Originea virusului poate fi artificiala (creat de oameni si scapat dintr-un laborator accidental sau nu) la fel de bine cum poate fi si naturala. Ne lipsesc informatiile care sa sustina oricare dintre ipoteze. Cert este ca acest lucru conteaza mai putin. Ceea ce este de interes este faptul ca suntem in contact cu acest virus si trebuie sa stim cum sa facem managementul acestei situatii.
Referitor la declaratiile care spun ca 90% din populatie poate fi decimata cu un virus pot spune ca sunt extrem de hazardate. Pandemia de gripa cu cele mai multe victime din istorie este cea din 1918 iar aceasta a dus la moartea a 3% din populatia globului. Departe de o tinta de 90% cum se spune ca s-ar dori. Daca chiar cineva ar tinde spre aceasta cifra nu ar folosi un virus ineficient pentru acest lucru, sub nici o forma nu te apuci sa construiesti un bloc folosind doar niste lopatzele de plastic si nisip.
Treaba cu terminarea rezervelor de petrol s-a mai discutat pe aici, http://www.cutremur.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=525 si am gasit informatii care arata foarte clar ca lucrurile nu sunt chiar atat de negre pe cat par.
Am gasit despre vaccinul anti gripa porcina ca unul din producatori intr-adevar realizeaza vaccinul folosind culturi de celule (fata de ou) pentru a putea fi administrat si celor care sunt alergici la oua. Nu este vorba de celule neoplazice ci de tesut renal de la o specie de maimute. Tehnologia este folosita din 1962.
Referitor la Polonia, dincolo de niste interese economice clare, ar putea avea si ei partea lor de dreptate. Problema e data mai mult de decizia unor foruri superioare (UE) care nu convine Poloniei. Polonia considera ca are resursele necesare pentru a stapani efectele pandemiei pe teritoriul sau si ca poate face managementul acestei situatii cu resurse proprii.
De ce se face atat tam-tam cu pandemia asta? Cred ca este o cauza care contine urmatoarele componente:
1. exista riscul ca virusul sa aiba niste mutatii care sa il faca mult mai periculos
2. companiile de farmaceutice si-au rotunjit frumusel veniturile (eventual mai scapam si de stocurile vechi, la Matei Bals s-a distribuit Tamiflu care expira fix in noiembrie 2009!!)
3. cand teama cuprinde masele de oameni acestea sunt mult mai usor de manipulat
http://www.ziare.com/gripa-porcina/istoria-secreta-a-gripei-porcine-943428
Un articol destul de interesant, desi e foarte putin dezvoltat fiecare paragraf.
Un articol destul de interesant, desi e foarte putin dezvoltat fiecare paragraf.
\'bogdan\' pid=\'30689\' dateline=\'1257711932\' a spus:
Exact la asta ma gandeam si eu....presupunand ca exista acea organizatie care vrea sa elimine 90% din populatie:green:: un virus cu mortalitatea ridicata, indiferent de unde provine, este instrumentul cel mai potrivit. Iar daca cineva se apuca sa gaseasca un vaccin tot ce are \"organizatia\" de facut este sa discrediteze acest vaccin( net-ul fiind cea mai rapida si eficienta cale..).
Eu vad situatia din alt punct de vedere, daca nenea x face un virus inofensiv apoi cu ajutorul media isterizeaza bine populatia (asa cum se intampla acum) si tot nenea x face si vaccinul care e de fapt adevaratul killer. Mi se pare un scenariu mult mai bine pus la punct, nu cred ca are nimeni curaj sa arunce un virus mortal care va ucide fara discriminare, pe cand un vaccin poate fi administrat foarte selectiv pe anumite grupe de populatie si pe anumite zone. Acuma nu spun ca sunt cel mai mare fan al acestei teorii a conspiratiei dar avand in vedere si reticenta cadrelor medicale avizate vizavi de vaccin ma face sa refuz fara echivoc acest vaccin. Mai ales ca . cred cu tarie ca acest virus nu e cu nimic mai grav decat o gripa obisnuita.
Dimpotriva, singurul lucru pe care il cred este potentialul sau de a deveni periculos si necontrolat, o perioada. Din cauze precum:
- patogenitatea sa - si dificultatea organismului da a da rapsunsul imunitar in adecvat in timp adecvat - creeaza disponibilitatea pt a se raspindi foarte repede ceea ce inseamna pericol crescut de aparitie a mutatiilor. O mutatie \'perfectionata\' a virusului face complet neeficient vaccinul actual.
- \'ingemanarea\' cu virusul gripei aviare pe care, inteleg, specialistii tot \'toarna acizi si base\' peste el :55:
, de vreo 10 ani. Ceva cu teoria proteinei virusului gripei aviare care trece la om, de bariera cailor respiratorii superioare, mergind spre plamin, nu mi-e foarte clara :98: . Insa totul e informatie dubitabila de larga circulatie :98: .
Alex
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History repeating:
Transcript:
CBS ‘60 Minutes’ Transcript
MIKE WALLACE: The flu season is upon us. Which type will we worry about this year, and what kind of shots will we be told to take? Remember the swine flu scare of 1976? That was the year the U.S. government told us all that swine flu could turn out to be a killer that could spread across the nation, and Washington decided that every man, woman and child in the nation should get a shot to prevent a nation-wide outbreak, a pandemic.
Well 46 million of us obediently took the shot, and now 4,000 Americans are claiming damages from Uncle Sam amounting to three and a half billion dollars because of what happened when they took that shot. By far the greatest number of the claims – two thirds of them are for neurological damage, or even death, allegedly triggered by the flu shot.
We pick up the story back in 1976, when the threat posed by the swine flu virus seemed very real indeed.
PRESIDENT GERALD FORD; This virus was the cause of a pandemic in 1918 and 1919 that resulted in over half a million deaths in the United States, as well as 20 million deaths around the world.
WALLACE: Thus the U.S. government’s publicity machine was cranked into action to urge all America to protect itself against the swine flu menace. (Excerpt from TV commercial urging everyone to get a swine flu shot.) One of those who did roll up her sleeve was Judy Roberts. She was perfectly healthy, an active woman, when, in November of 1976, she took her shot. Two weeks later, she says, she began to feel a numbness starting up her legs.
JUDY ROBERTS: And I joked about it at that time. I said I’ll be numb to the knees by Friday if this keeps up. By the following week, I was totally paralyzed.
WALLACE: So completely paralyzed, in fact, that they had to operate on her to enable her to breathe. And for six months, Judy Roberts was a quadriplegic. The diagnosis: A neurological disorder called “Guillain-Barre Syndrome” – GBS for short. These neurological diseases are little understood. They affect people in different ways.
As you can see in these home movies taken by a friend, Judy Roberts’ paralysis confined her mostly to a wheelchair for over a year. But this disease can even kill. Indeed, there are 300 claims now pending from the families of GBS victims who died, allegedly as a result of the swine flu shot. In other GBS victims, the crippling effects diminish and all but disappear. But for Judy Roberts, progress back to good health has been painful and partial.
Now, I notice that your smile, Judy, is a little bit constricted.
ROBERTS: Yes, it is.
WALLACE: Is it different from what it used to be?
ROBERTS: Very different, I have a – a greatly decreased mobility in my lips. And I can’t drink through a straw on the right-band side. I can’t blow out birthday candles. I don’t whistle any more, for which my husband is grateful.
WALLACE: It may be a little difficult for you to answer this question, but have you recovered as much as you are going to recover?
ROBERTS: Yes. This – this is it.
WALLACE: So you will now have a legacy of braces on your legs for the rest of your life?
ROBERTS: Yes. The weakness in my hands will stay and the leg braces will stay.
WALLACE: So Judy Roberts and her husband have filed a claim against the U.S. government. They’re asking $12 million, though they don’t expect to get nearly that much. Judy, why did you take the flu shot?
ROBERTS: I’d never taken any other flu shots, but I felt like this was going to be a major epidemic, and the only way to prevent a major epidemic of a – a really deadly variety of flu was for every body to be immunized.
WALLACE: Where did this so called “deadly variety of flu”, where did it first hit back in 1976? It began right here at Fort Dix in New Jersey in January of that year, when a number of recruits began to complain of respiratory ailments, something like the common cold. An Army doctor here sent samples of their throat cultures to the New Jersey Public Health Lab to find our just what kind of bug was going around here. One of those samples was from a Private David Lewis, who had left his sick bed to go on a forced march. Private Lewis had collapsed on that march, and his sergeant had revived him by mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. But the sergeant showed no signs of illness. A few days later, Private Lewis died.
ROBERTS: If this disease is so potentially fatal that it’s going to kill a young, healthy man, a middle-aged schoolteacher doesn’t have a prayer.
WALLACE: The New Jersey lab identified most of those solders’ throat cultures as the normal kind of flu virus going around that year, but they could not make out what kind of virus was in the culture from the dead soldier, and from four others who were sick. So they sent those cultures to the Federal Center for Disease Control in Atlanta, Georgia, for further study. A few days later they got the verdict: swine flu. But that much-publicized outbreak of swine flu at Fort Dix involved only Private Lewis, who died, and those four other soldiers, who recovered completely without the swine flu shot.
ROBERTS: If I had known at that time that the boy had been in a sick bed, got up, went out on a forced march and then collapsed and died, I would never have taken the shot.
DR DAVID SENCER: The rationale for our recommendation was not on the basis of the death of a – a single individual, but it was on the basis that when we do see a change in the characteristics of the influenza virus, it is a massive public-health problem in the country.
WALLACE: Dr David Sencer, then head of the CDS – the Center of Disease Control in Atlanta – is now in private industry. He devised the swine flu program and he pushed it.
WALLACE: You began to give flu shots to the American people in October of ‘76?
DR SENCER: October 1st.
WALLACE: By that time, how many cases of swine flu around the world had been reported?
DR SENCER: There had been several reported, but none confirmed. There had been cases in Australia that were reported by the press, by the news media. There were cases in -
WALLACE: None confirmed? Did you ever uncover any other outbreaks of swine flu anywhere in the world?
DR SENCER: No
WALLACE: Now, nearly everyone was to receive a shot in a public health facility where a doctor might not be present, therefore it was up to the CDC to come up with some kind of official consent form giving the public all the information it needed about the swine flu shot. This form stated that the swine flu vaccine had been tested. What it didn’t say was that after those tests were completed, the scientists developed another vaccine and that it was the one given to most of the 46 million who took the shot. That vaccine was called “X-53a”. Was X-53a ever field tested?
DR SENCER: I-I can’t say. I would have to -
WALLACE: It wasn’t
DR SENCER: I don’t know
WALLACE: Well, I would think that you’re in charge of the program
DR SENCER: 1 would have to check the records. I haven’t looked at this in some time.
WALLACE: The information form the consent form was also supposed to warn people about any risk of serious complications following the shot. But did it?
ROBERTS: No, I had never heard of any reactions other than a sore arm, fever, this sort of thing.
WALLACE: Judy Roberts’ husband, Gene, also took the shot.
GENE ROBERTS: Yes, I looked at that document, I signed it. Nothing on there said I was going to have a heart attack, or I can get Guillain Barre, which I’d never heard of.
WALLACE: What if people from the government, from the Center for Disease Control, what if they had indeed, known about it, what would be your feeling?
JUDY ROBERTS: They should have told us.
WALLACE: Did anyone ever come to you and say, “You know something, fellows, there’s the possibility of neurological damage if you get into a mass immunization program?”
DR SENCER: No
WALLACE: No one ever did?
DR SENCER: No
WALLACE: Do you know Michael Hattwick?
DR SENCER: Yes, uh-hmm.
WALLACE: Dr Michael Hattwick directed the surveillance team for the swine flu program at the CDC. His job was to find out what possible complications could arise from taking the shot and to report his findings to those in charge. Did you know ahead of time, Dr Hattwick that there had been case reports of neurological disorders, neurological illness, apparently associated with the injection of influenza vaccine?
DR MICHAEL HATTWICK: Absolutely
WALLACE: You did?
DR HATIWICK: Yes
WALLACE: How did you know that?
DR HATTWICK: By review of the literature.
WALLACE: So you told your superiors – the men in charge of the swine flu immunization program – about the possibility of neurological disorders?
DR HATTWICK: Absolutely
WALLACE: What would you say if I told you that your superiors say that you never told them about the possibility of neurological complications?
DR HATTWICK: That’s nonsense. I can’t believe that they would say that they did not know that there were neurological illnesses associated with influenza vaccination. That simply is not true. We did know that.
DR SENCER: I have said that Dr Hattwick had never told me of his feelings on this subject.
WALLACE: Then he’s lying?
DR SENCER: I guess you would have to make that assumption.
WALLACE: Then why does this report from your own agency, dated July 1976, list neurological complications as a possibility?
DR SENCER: I think the consensus of the scientific community was that the evidence relating neurologic disorders to influenza immunization was such that they did not feel that this association was a real one.
WALLACE: You didn’t feel it was necessary to tell the American people that information
DR SENCER: I think that over the – the years we have tried to inform the American people as – as fully as possible.
WALLACE: As part of informing Americans about the swine flu threat, Dr Sencer’s CDC also helped create the advertising to get the public to take the shot. Let me read to your from one of your own agency’s memos planning the campaign to urge Americans to take the shot. “The swine flu vaccine has been taken by many important persons,” he wrote. “Example: President Ford, Henry Kissinger, Elton John, Muhammad Ah, Mary Tyler Moore, Rudolf Nureyev, Walter Cronkite, Ralph Nader, Edward Kennedy” -etcetera, etcetera, True?
DR SENCER: I’m not familiar with that particular piece of paper, but I do know that, at least of that group, President Ford did take the vaccination.
WALLACE: Did you talk to these people beforehand to find out if they planned to take the shot?
DR SENCER: I did not, no.
WALLACE: Did anybody?
DR SENCER: I do not know.
WALLACE: Did you get permission to use their names in your campaign?
DR SENCER: I do not know.
WALLACE: Mary, did you take a swine flu shot?
MARY TYLER MOORE: No, I did not.
WALLACE: Did you give them permission to use your name saying that you had or were going to?
MOORE: Absolutely not. Never did.
WALLACE: Did you ask your own doctor about taking the swine flu shot?
MOORE: Yes, and at the time he thought it might be a good idea. But I resisted it, because I was leery of having the symptoms that sometimes go with that kind of inoculation.
WALLACE: So you didn’t?
MOORE: No, I didn’t.
WALLACE: Have you spoken to your doctor since?
MOORE: Yes.
WALLACE: And?
MOORE: He’s delighted that I didn’t take that shot.
WALLACE: You’re in charge. Somebody’s in charge.
DR SENCER: There are -
WALLACE: This is your advertising strategy that I have a copy of here.
DR SENCER: Who’s it signed by?
WALLACE: This one is unsigned. But you–you’ll acknowledge that it was your baby so to speak?
DR SENCER: It could have been from the Department of Health, Education and Welfare. It could be from CDC. I don’t know. I’ll be happy to take responsibility for it.
WALLACE: It’s been three years now since you fell ill by GBS right?
ROBERTS: Right.
WALLACE: Has the federal government, in your estimation, played fair with you about your claim?
ROBERTS: No, I don’t think so. It seems to be dragging on and on and on, and really no end in sight that I can see at this point.
JOSEPH CALIFANO: With respect to the cases of Guillain Barre…
WALLACE: Former Secretary of HEW Joseph Caifano, too was disturbed that there was no end in sight. So a year and a half ago, he proposed that Uncle Sam would cut the bureaucratic red tape for victims suffering from GBS and would pay up quickly.
CALIFANO: We shouldn’t hold them to an impossible or too difficult standard of proving that they were hurt. Even if we pay a few people a few thousand dollars that might not have deserved it, I think justice requires that we promptly pay those people who do deserve it.
WALLACE: Who’s making the decision to be so hard-nosed about settling?
CALIFANO: Well, I assume the Justice Department is.
WALLACE: Griffin Bell, before he left?
CALIFANO: Well, the Justice Department agreed to the statement I made. It was cleared word for word with the lawyers in the Justice Department by my HEW lawyers.
CALIFANO: That-that statement said that we should pay Guillain Barre claims without regard to whether the federal government was negligent, if they – if they resulted from the swine flu shot.
GENE ROBERTS: I think the government knows its wrong.
JUDY ROBERTS: If it drags out long enough, that people will just give up, let it go.
GENE ROBERTS: I—I am a little more adamant in my thoughts than my wife is, because I asked – told Judy to take the shot. She wasn’t going to take it, and she never had had shots. And I’m mad with my government because they knew the fact, but they didn’t realize those facts because they – if they had released them, the people wouldn’t have taken it. And they can come out tomorrow and tell me there’s going to be an epidemic, and they can drop off like flies to – next to me, I will not take another shot that my government tells me to take.
WALLACE: Meantime, Judy Roberts and some 4,000 others like her are still waiting for their day in court.
Si, din pacate se repeta si cazurile de imbolnaviri: http://www.examiner.com/x-29228-LA-...ed-with-GuillainBarre-syndrome-after-flu-shot
Transcript:
CBS ‘60 Minutes’ Transcript
MIKE WALLACE: The flu season is upon us. Which type will we worry about this year, and what kind of shots will we be told to take? Remember the swine flu scare of 1976? That was the year the U.S. government told us all that swine flu could turn out to be a killer that could spread across the nation, and Washington decided that every man, woman and child in the nation should get a shot to prevent a nation-wide outbreak, a pandemic.
Well 46 million of us obediently took the shot, and now 4,000 Americans are claiming damages from Uncle Sam amounting to three and a half billion dollars because of what happened when they took that shot. By far the greatest number of the claims – two thirds of them are for neurological damage, or even death, allegedly triggered by the flu shot.
We pick up the story back in 1976, when the threat posed by the swine flu virus seemed very real indeed.
PRESIDENT GERALD FORD; This virus was the cause of a pandemic in 1918 and 1919 that resulted in over half a million deaths in the United States, as well as 20 million deaths around the world.
WALLACE: Thus the U.S. government’s publicity machine was cranked into action to urge all America to protect itself against the swine flu menace. (Excerpt from TV commercial urging everyone to get a swine flu shot.) One of those who did roll up her sleeve was Judy Roberts. She was perfectly healthy, an active woman, when, in November of 1976, she took her shot. Two weeks later, she says, she began to feel a numbness starting up her legs.
JUDY ROBERTS: And I joked about it at that time. I said I’ll be numb to the knees by Friday if this keeps up. By the following week, I was totally paralyzed.
WALLACE: So completely paralyzed, in fact, that they had to operate on her to enable her to breathe. And for six months, Judy Roberts was a quadriplegic. The diagnosis: A neurological disorder called “Guillain-Barre Syndrome” – GBS for short. These neurological diseases are little understood. They affect people in different ways.
As you can see in these home movies taken by a friend, Judy Roberts’ paralysis confined her mostly to a wheelchair for over a year. But this disease can even kill. Indeed, there are 300 claims now pending from the families of GBS victims who died, allegedly as a result of the swine flu shot. In other GBS victims, the crippling effects diminish and all but disappear. But for Judy Roberts, progress back to good health has been painful and partial.
Now, I notice that your smile, Judy, is a little bit constricted.
ROBERTS: Yes, it is.
WALLACE: Is it different from what it used to be?
ROBERTS: Very different, I have a – a greatly decreased mobility in my lips. And I can’t drink through a straw on the right-band side. I can’t blow out birthday candles. I don’t whistle any more, for which my husband is grateful.
WALLACE: It may be a little difficult for you to answer this question, but have you recovered as much as you are going to recover?
ROBERTS: Yes. This – this is it.
WALLACE: So you will now have a legacy of braces on your legs for the rest of your life?
ROBERTS: Yes. The weakness in my hands will stay and the leg braces will stay.
WALLACE: So Judy Roberts and her husband have filed a claim against the U.S. government. They’re asking $12 million, though they don’t expect to get nearly that much. Judy, why did you take the flu shot?
ROBERTS: I’d never taken any other flu shots, but I felt like this was going to be a major epidemic, and the only way to prevent a major epidemic of a – a really deadly variety of flu was for every body to be immunized.
WALLACE: Where did this so called “deadly variety of flu”, where did it first hit back in 1976? It began right here at Fort Dix in New Jersey in January of that year, when a number of recruits began to complain of respiratory ailments, something like the common cold. An Army doctor here sent samples of their throat cultures to the New Jersey Public Health Lab to find our just what kind of bug was going around here. One of those samples was from a Private David Lewis, who had left his sick bed to go on a forced march. Private Lewis had collapsed on that march, and his sergeant had revived him by mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. But the sergeant showed no signs of illness. A few days later, Private Lewis died.
ROBERTS: If this disease is so potentially fatal that it’s going to kill a young, healthy man, a middle-aged schoolteacher doesn’t have a prayer.
WALLACE: The New Jersey lab identified most of those solders’ throat cultures as the normal kind of flu virus going around that year, but they could not make out what kind of virus was in the culture from the dead soldier, and from four others who were sick. So they sent those cultures to the Federal Center for Disease Control in Atlanta, Georgia, for further study. A few days later they got the verdict: swine flu. But that much-publicized outbreak of swine flu at Fort Dix involved only Private Lewis, who died, and those four other soldiers, who recovered completely without the swine flu shot.
ROBERTS: If I had known at that time that the boy had been in a sick bed, got up, went out on a forced march and then collapsed and died, I would never have taken the shot.
DR DAVID SENCER: The rationale for our recommendation was not on the basis of the death of a – a single individual, but it was on the basis that when we do see a change in the characteristics of the influenza virus, it is a massive public-health problem in the country.
WALLACE: Dr David Sencer, then head of the CDS – the Center of Disease Control in Atlanta – is now in private industry. He devised the swine flu program and he pushed it.
WALLACE: You began to give flu shots to the American people in October of ‘76?
DR SENCER: October 1st.
WALLACE: By that time, how many cases of swine flu around the world had been reported?
DR SENCER: There had been several reported, but none confirmed. There had been cases in Australia that were reported by the press, by the news media. There were cases in -
WALLACE: None confirmed? Did you ever uncover any other outbreaks of swine flu anywhere in the world?
DR SENCER: No
WALLACE: Now, nearly everyone was to receive a shot in a public health facility where a doctor might not be present, therefore it was up to the CDC to come up with some kind of official consent form giving the public all the information it needed about the swine flu shot. This form stated that the swine flu vaccine had been tested. What it didn’t say was that after those tests were completed, the scientists developed another vaccine and that it was the one given to most of the 46 million who took the shot. That vaccine was called “X-53a”. Was X-53a ever field tested?
DR SENCER: I-I can’t say. I would have to -
WALLACE: It wasn’t
DR SENCER: I don’t know
WALLACE: Well, I would think that you’re in charge of the program
DR SENCER: 1 would have to check the records. I haven’t looked at this in some time.
WALLACE: The information form the consent form was also supposed to warn people about any risk of serious complications following the shot. But did it?
ROBERTS: No, I had never heard of any reactions other than a sore arm, fever, this sort of thing.
WALLACE: Judy Roberts’ husband, Gene, also took the shot.
GENE ROBERTS: Yes, I looked at that document, I signed it. Nothing on there said I was going to have a heart attack, or I can get Guillain Barre, which I’d never heard of.
WALLACE: What if people from the government, from the Center for Disease Control, what if they had indeed, known about it, what would be your feeling?
JUDY ROBERTS: They should have told us.
WALLACE: Did anyone ever come to you and say, “You know something, fellows, there’s the possibility of neurological damage if you get into a mass immunization program?”
DR SENCER: No
WALLACE: No one ever did?
DR SENCER: No
WALLACE: Do you know Michael Hattwick?
DR SENCER: Yes, uh-hmm.
WALLACE: Dr Michael Hattwick directed the surveillance team for the swine flu program at the CDC. His job was to find out what possible complications could arise from taking the shot and to report his findings to those in charge. Did you know ahead of time, Dr Hattwick that there had been case reports of neurological disorders, neurological illness, apparently associated with the injection of influenza vaccine?
DR MICHAEL HATTWICK: Absolutely
WALLACE: You did?
DR HATIWICK: Yes
WALLACE: How did you know that?
DR HATTWICK: By review of the literature.
WALLACE: So you told your superiors – the men in charge of the swine flu immunization program – about the possibility of neurological disorders?
DR HATTWICK: Absolutely
WALLACE: What would you say if I told you that your superiors say that you never told them about the possibility of neurological complications?
DR HATTWICK: That’s nonsense. I can’t believe that they would say that they did not know that there were neurological illnesses associated with influenza vaccination. That simply is not true. We did know that.
DR SENCER: I have said that Dr Hattwick had never told me of his feelings on this subject.
WALLACE: Then he’s lying?
DR SENCER: I guess you would have to make that assumption.
WALLACE: Then why does this report from your own agency, dated July 1976, list neurological complications as a possibility?
DR SENCER: I think the consensus of the scientific community was that the evidence relating neurologic disorders to influenza immunization was such that they did not feel that this association was a real one.
WALLACE: You didn’t feel it was necessary to tell the American people that information
DR SENCER: I think that over the – the years we have tried to inform the American people as – as fully as possible.
WALLACE: As part of informing Americans about the swine flu threat, Dr Sencer’s CDC also helped create the advertising to get the public to take the shot. Let me read to your from one of your own agency’s memos planning the campaign to urge Americans to take the shot. “The swine flu vaccine has been taken by many important persons,” he wrote. “Example: President Ford, Henry Kissinger, Elton John, Muhammad Ah, Mary Tyler Moore, Rudolf Nureyev, Walter Cronkite, Ralph Nader, Edward Kennedy” -etcetera, etcetera, True?
DR SENCER: I’m not familiar with that particular piece of paper, but I do know that, at least of that group, President Ford did take the vaccination.
WALLACE: Did you talk to these people beforehand to find out if they planned to take the shot?
DR SENCER: I did not, no.
WALLACE: Did anybody?
DR SENCER: I do not know.
WALLACE: Did you get permission to use their names in your campaign?
DR SENCER: I do not know.
WALLACE: Mary, did you take a swine flu shot?
MARY TYLER MOORE: No, I did not.
WALLACE: Did you give them permission to use your name saying that you had or were going to?
MOORE: Absolutely not. Never did.
WALLACE: Did you ask your own doctor about taking the swine flu shot?
MOORE: Yes, and at the time he thought it might be a good idea. But I resisted it, because I was leery of having the symptoms that sometimes go with that kind of inoculation.
WALLACE: So you didn’t?
MOORE: No, I didn’t.
WALLACE: Have you spoken to your doctor since?
MOORE: Yes.
WALLACE: And?
MOORE: He’s delighted that I didn’t take that shot.
WALLACE: You’re in charge. Somebody’s in charge.
DR SENCER: There are -
WALLACE: This is your advertising strategy that I have a copy of here.
DR SENCER: Who’s it signed by?
WALLACE: This one is unsigned. But you–you’ll acknowledge that it was your baby so to speak?
DR SENCER: It could have been from the Department of Health, Education and Welfare. It could be from CDC. I don’t know. I’ll be happy to take responsibility for it.
WALLACE: It’s been three years now since you fell ill by GBS right?
ROBERTS: Right.
WALLACE: Has the federal government, in your estimation, played fair with you about your claim?
ROBERTS: No, I don’t think so. It seems to be dragging on and on and on, and really no end in sight that I can see at this point.
JOSEPH CALIFANO: With respect to the cases of Guillain Barre…
WALLACE: Former Secretary of HEW Joseph Caifano, too was disturbed that there was no end in sight. So a year and a half ago, he proposed that Uncle Sam would cut the bureaucratic red tape for victims suffering from GBS and would pay up quickly.
CALIFANO: We shouldn’t hold them to an impossible or too difficult standard of proving that they were hurt. Even if we pay a few people a few thousand dollars that might not have deserved it, I think justice requires that we promptly pay those people who do deserve it.
WALLACE: Who’s making the decision to be so hard-nosed about settling?
CALIFANO: Well, I assume the Justice Department is.
WALLACE: Griffin Bell, before he left?
CALIFANO: Well, the Justice Department agreed to the statement I made. It was cleared word for word with the lawyers in the Justice Department by my HEW lawyers.
CALIFANO: That-that statement said that we should pay Guillain Barre claims without regard to whether the federal government was negligent, if they – if they resulted from the swine flu shot.
GENE ROBERTS: I think the government knows its wrong.
JUDY ROBERTS: If it drags out long enough, that people will just give up, let it go.
GENE ROBERTS: I—I am a little more adamant in my thoughts than my wife is, because I asked – told Judy to take the shot. She wasn’t going to take it, and she never had had shots. And I’m mad with my government because they knew the fact, but they didn’t realize those facts because they – if they had released them, the people wouldn’t have taken it. And they can come out tomorrow and tell me there’s going to be an epidemic, and they can drop off like flies to – next to me, I will not take another shot that my government tells me to take.
WALLACE: Meantime, Judy Roberts and some 4,000 others like her are still waiting for their day in court.
Si, din pacate se repeta si cazurile de imbolnaviri: http://www.examiner.com/x-29228-LA-...ed-with-GuillainBarre-syndrome-after-flu-shot
CuTremuratul
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Pana la urma gripa porcina, aviara, etc. ar putea fi cazuri de coruptie si atat...
\"Anchetă jurnalistică: Experţi OMS iau bani de la companiile farmaceutice\"
\"Jurnaliştii danezi care au investigat relaţiile de afaceri dintre experţi ai Organizaţiei Mondiale a Sănătăţii (OMS) şi unele dintre cele mai importante companii farmaceutice din lume au ajuns la concluzia că pandemia de gripă porcină s-ar putea dovedi a fi una din cele mai grandioase afaceri de corupţie din timpurile noastre.
Potrivit ziarului danez Information, în cadrul anchetei a ieşit la iveală faptul că mulţi oameni de ştiinţă dintr-o serie de comisii ale OMS încearcă să ascundă că se află, în secret, în serviciul marilor companiilor farmaceutice, de la care primesc bani în mod curent.\"
http://www.adevarul.ro/internationa...e_la_companiile_farmaceutice_0_159584514.html
Sau:
\"Pandemia, o afacere
Pandemia de gripa porcina s-ar putea dovedi a fi una din cele mai grandioase afaceri de coruptie din timpurile noastre, la aceasta concluzie au ajuns jurnalistii danezi care au investigat relatiile de afaceri dintre o seama de experti ai Organizatiei Mondiale a Sanatatii (OMS) si unele dintre cele mai importante companii farmaceutice din lume, care s-au imbogatit considerabil de pe urma vanzarii de vaccinuri si altor preparate impotriva virusului A/H1N1, transmite Agerpres.
In cadrul unei anchete a ziaristilor danezi de la ziarul Information a iesit la iveala faptul ca multi oameni de stiinta dintr-o serie de comisii ale OMS incearca sa ascunda ca se afla, in secret, in serviciul marilor companiilor farmaceutice, de la care primesc bani in mod curent. In realitate, pandemia de gripa noua este rezultatul unei campanii de PR grandioase, la scara planetara, aceasta este concluzia ce se desprinde din investigatia ziaristilor de la Information. Printre consilierii OMC care au cerut decretarea situatiei de pandemie figureaza consultanti platiti ai gigantilor Roche, RW Johnson, Glaxo Wellcome - SmithKline Beecham, firmele care au obtinut partea leului din comenzile de vaccinuri \"
http://www.ziua.ro/display.php?data=2009-11-26&id=262333
Asa ca...
\"Anchetă jurnalistică: Experţi OMS iau bani de la companiile farmaceutice\"
\"Jurnaliştii danezi care au investigat relaţiile de afaceri dintre experţi ai Organizaţiei Mondiale a Sănătăţii (OMS) şi unele dintre cele mai importante companii farmaceutice din lume au ajuns la concluzia că pandemia de gripă porcină s-ar putea dovedi a fi una din cele mai grandioase afaceri de corupţie din timpurile noastre.
Potrivit ziarului danez Information, în cadrul anchetei a ieşit la iveală faptul că mulţi oameni de ştiinţă dintr-o serie de comisii ale OMS încearcă să ascundă că se află, în secret, în serviciul marilor companiilor farmaceutice, de la care primesc bani în mod curent.\"
http://www.adevarul.ro/internationa...e_la_companiile_farmaceutice_0_159584514.html
Sau:
\"Pandemia, o afacere
Pandemia de gripa porcina s-ar putea dovedi a fi una din cele mai grandioase afaceri de coruptie din timpurile noastre, la aceasta concluzie au ajuns jurnalistii danezi care au investigat relatiile de afaceri dintre o seama de experti ai Organizatiei Mondiale a Sanatatii (OMS) si unele dintre cele mai importante companii farmaceutice din lume, care s-au imbogatit considerabil de pe urma vanzarii de vaccinuri si altor preparate impotriva virusului A/H1N1, transmite Agerpres.
In cadrul unei anchete a ziaristilor danezi de la ziarul Information a iesit la iveala faptul ca multi oameni de stiinta dintr-o serie de comisii ale OMS incearca sa ascunda ca se afla, in secret, in serviciul marilor companiilor farmaceutice, de la care primesc bani in mod curent. In realitate, pandemia de gripa noua este rezultatul unei campanii de PR grandioase, la scara planetara, aceasta este concluzia ce se desprinde din investigatia ziaristilor de la Information. Printre consilierii OMC care au cerut decretarea situatiei de pandemie figureaza consultanti platiti ai gigantilor Roche, RW Johnson, Glaxo Wellcome - SmithKline Beecham, firmele care au obtinut partea leului din comenzile de vaccinuri \"
http://www.ziua.ro/display.php?data=2009-11-26&id=262333
Asa ca...
USGSistul
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Gripa noua si teoria conspiratiei: ONU si OMS - acuzate de bioterorism si tentativa de genocid
Inalti oficiali ai SUA, ONU si OMS fac parte dintr-un ,,sindicat international al crimei”, care este pe cale sa comita ,,cel mai mare genocid biologic” din lume, folosindu-se de vaccinul impotriva virusului AH1N1. Sunt cateva dintre acuzatiile pe care jurnalista austriaca Jane Burgermeister le aduce unor oficiali ONU si OMS, intr-un dosar depus la FBI.
Burgermeister a dat in judecata, in aprilie 2009, doua companii farmaceutice din Austria, pentru producerea unui vaccin contaminat pentru gripa aviara. De data aceasta, ziarista intentioneaza sa ceara interzicerea masurilor de vaccinare fortata a populatiei din SUA si alte tari afectate de gripa noua (sau gripa porcina). Potrivit reporterului, grupul a lansat un virus creat artificial, pentru a elimina o parte din populatie si pentru a obtine profituri din vanzarea vaccinului, prin companiile farmaceutice.
Pandemie fabricata mediatic, pentru a elimina populatia prin vaccin
Burgermeister noteaza ca cifrele reprezentand numarul deceselor din cauza ,,gripei porcine” sunt irelevante si exista claritate cu privire la modul in care s-a ajuns la acest numar de decese. Nu exista potential pandemic decat in cazul in care se procedeaza la vaccinarea in masa, in intentia de a proteja populatia. Pentru a-si sprijini afirmatiile, jurnalista da exemplul unui vaccin impotriva gripei aviare, al companiei Novartis, cara a obtinut licenta si care a omorat, in 2008, 21 de oameni fara adapost in Polonia si a avut o rata semnificativa de efecte secundare.
Valuri de proteste impotriva vaccinului, in intreaga lume
Indiferent daca a fost creata in laboratoare pentru cauze mai mult sau mai putin oculte, sau daca a aparut de la sine, prin combinarea unor virusuri existente deja, gripa noua a creat o isterie internationala. Valurile de proteste impotriva vaccinarii obligatorii au pornit in lume. Desi toata lumea asteapta vaccinul impotriva gripei porcine cat mai repede si desi s-au stabilit clar grupele prioritare de persoane pentru a primi acest vaccin, americanii par sa se teama de noile produse. Astfel s-a ajuns ca, dupa ce vaccinul realizat in Statele Unite ale Americii sa fie disponibil, americanii sa ezite in ceea ce priveste vaccinarea. S-a ajuns la actiuni in justitie prin care personalul din domeniul Sanatatii din statul New York si-a cerut dreptul de a refuza vaccinarea obligatorie impotriva gripei AH1N1. Statele Unite au comandat peste 255 de milioane de doze, dintre care 77 de milioane au fost deja distribuite in cadrul acestei campanii masive de vaccinare, care a fost demarata la inceputul lui octombrie.
Germanii refuza si ei vaccinul
Cel mult o treime dintre germani ar accepta sa fie vaccinati, dupa rezultatele unor sondaje recente, iar autoritatile sunt acuzate ca au un vaccin ,,sigur” (pentru 300.000 de privilegiati) si unul ,,nesigur” pentru 50 milioane de oameni. Lupta impotriva vaccinarii este condusa nu de adepti ai teoriilor coinspirationiste, ci de reputati medici si farmacisti. Numerosi medici insista ca imunizarea nu trebuie sa aiba loc, in conditiile in care 59% dintre cetatenii germani au declarat ca nu se tem de noua gripa. In toata tara s-au inregistrat 23.000 imbolnaviri din pricina N1H1 si doua persoane au murit. Prin urmare, excesul de zel al autoritatilor in a purcede la vaccinare este decriptat, si in Germania, precum in Austria si in S.U.A, prin lobby-ul companiilor farmaceutice pentru a isi vinde produsele. Opozitia germanilor la vaccinare este impartasita de majoritatea belgienilor, danezilor, finlandezilor, francezilor si olandezilor.
Maria Dicu, 02-11-2009
http://www.bitpress.ro/articole/san...-de-bioterorism-si-tentativa-de-genocid-.html
[attachment=7844:200912/post_1636_1259831098_86a19d336a7628357d4ddbe745f830d1.attach]
http://www.bitpress.ro/
Inalti oficiali ai SUA, ONU si OMS fac parte dintr-un ,,sindicat international al crimei”, care este pe cale sa comita ,,cel mai mare genocid biologic” din lume, folosindu-se de vaccinul impotriva virusului AH1N1. Sunt cateva dintre acuzatiile pe care jurnalista austriaca Jane Burgermeister le aduce unor oficiali ONU si OMS, intr-un dosar depus la FBI.
Burgermeister a dat in judecata, in aprilie 2009, doua companii farmaceutice din Austria, pentru producerea unui vaccin contaminat pentru gripa aviara. De data aceasta, ziarista intentioneaza sa ceara interzicerea masurilor de vaccinare fortata a populatiei din SUA si alte tari afectate de gripa noua (sau gripa porcina). Potrivit reporterului, grupul a lansat un virus creat artificial, pentru a elimina o parte din populatie si pentru a obtine profituri din vanzarea vaccinului, prin companiile farmaceutice.
Pandemie fabricata mediatic, pentru a elimina populatia prin vaccin
Burgermeister noteaza ca cifrele reprezentand numarul deceselor din cauza ,,gripei porcine” sunt irelevante si exista claritate cu privire la modul in care s-a ajuns la acest numar de decese. Nu exista potential pandemic decat in cazul in care se procedeaza la vaccinarea in masa, in intentia de a proteja populatia. Pentru a-si sprijini afirmatiile, jurnalista da exemplul unui vaccin impotriva gripei aviare, al companiei Novartis, cara a obtinut licenta si care a omorat, in 2008, 21 de oameni fara adapost in Polonia si a avut o rata semnificativa de efecte secundare.
Valuri de proteste impotriva vaccinului, in intreaga lume
Indiferent daca a fost creata in laboratoare pentru cauze mai mult sau mai putin oculte, sau daca a aparut de la sine, prin combinarea unor virusuri existente deja, gripa noua a creat o isterie internationala. Valurile de proteste impotriva vaccinarii obligatorii au pornit in lume. Desi toata lumea asteapta vaccinul impotriva gripei porcine cat mai repede si desi s-au stabilit clar grupele prioritare de persoane pentru a primi acest vaccin, americanii par sa se teama de noile produse. Astfel s-a ajuns ca, dupa ce vaccinul realizat in Statele Unite ale Americii sa fie disponibil, americanii sa ezite in ceea ce priveste vaccinarea. S-a ajuns la actiuni in justitie prin care personalul din domeniul Sanatatii din statul New York si-a cerut dreptul de a refuza vaccinarea obligatorie impotriva gripei AH1N1. Statele Unite au comandat peste 255 de milioane de doze, dintre care 77 de milioane au fost deja distribuite in cadrul acestei campanii masive de vaccinare, care a fost demarata la inceputul lui octombrie.
Germanii refuza si ei vaccinul
Cel mult o treime dintre germani ar accepta sa fie vaccinati, dupa rezultatele unor sondaje recente, iar autoritatile sunt acuzate ca au un vaccin ,,sigur” (pentru 300.000 de privilegiati) si unul ,,nesigur” pentru 50 milioane de oameni. Lupta impotriva vaccinarii este condusa nu de adepti ai teoriilor coinspirationiste, ci de reputati medici si farmacisti. Numerosi medici insista ca imunizarea nu trebuie sa aiba loc, in conditiile in care 59% dintre cetatenii germani au declarat ca nu se tem de noua gripa. In toata tara s-au inregistrat 23.000 imbolnaviri din pricina N1H1 si doua persoane au murit. Prin urmare, excesul de zel al autoritatilor in a purcede la vaccinare este decriptat, si in Germania, precum in Austria si in S.U.A, prin lobby-ul companiilor farmaceutice pentru a isi vinde produsele. Opozitia germanilor la vaccinare este impartasita de majoritatea belgienilor, danezilor, finlandezilor, francezilor si olandezilor.
Maria Dicu, 02-11-2009
http://www.bitpress.ro/articole/san...-de-bioterorism-si-tentativa-de-genocid-.html
[attachment=7844:200912/post_1636_1259831098_86a19d336a7628357d4ddbe745f830d1.attach]
http://www.bitpress.ro/
Old DG_mybb_import688
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Si eu m-am intrebat cum la 75 de zile de la declansarea pandemiei se anunta descoperirea si testarea vaccinului, cand pentru asta un medicament obisnuit asteapata la \"coada\" ani de zile toate aprobarile!
CuTremuratul
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\"Părinţii nu au voie să participe la serbările de Crăciun, din cauza noii gripe
Serbări mai puţin obişnuite în grădiniţele din toată ţara. Copiii se adună să spună poezii şi să îl primească pe Moş Crăciun, dar lipesc părinţii. Multe direcţii de sănătate publică recomandat ca aceştia să nu vină la serbări, ca măsură de prevenire a răspândirii gripei noi.
Directorii de grădiniţe spun că părinţii au fost puţin nemulţumiţi, dar în final au înţeles care este situaţia. Cei mici nu au simţit prea tare lipsa părinţilor, mai ales că Moş Crăciun a venit cu sacul plin de cadouri. În plus, serbările sunt filmate şi vor ajunge la părinţi pe CD-uri.
Recomandarea DSP Sibiu a venit în urma unei adrese a Ministerului Educaţiei, în încercarea de a preveni infectarea copiiilor cu virusul AH1N1. Măsuri similare au fost luate şi în Cluj, Alba sau Mureş, iar la unele grădiniţe din Bucureşti, la serbări poate veni un singur părinte.\"
http://www.realitatea.net/parintii-...-de-craciun--din-cauza-noii-gripe_691265.html
Asteptam interzicerea participarii oamenilor la Sfintele Liturghii cu ocazia Craciunului si altor sarbatori religioase.
Probabil se va interzice si impartasirea!
Serbări mai puţin obişnuite în grădiniţele din toată ţara. Copiii se adună să spună poezii şi să îl primească pe Moş Crăciun, dar lipesc părinţii. Multe direcţii de sănătate publică recomandat ca aceştia să nu vină la serbări, ca măsură de prevenire a răspândirii gripei noi.
Directorii de grădiniţe spun că părinţii au fost puţin nemulţumiţi, dar în final au înţeles care este situaţia. Cei mici nu au simţit prea tare lipsa părinţilor, mai ales că Moş Crăciun a venit cu sacul plin de cadouri. În plus, serbările sunt filmate şi vor ajunge la părinţi pe CD-uri.
Recomandarea DSP Sibiu a venit în urma unei adrese a Ministerului Educaţiei, în încercarea de a preveni infectarea copiiilor cu virusul AH1N1. Măsuri similare au fost luate şi în Cluj, Alba sau Mureş, iar la unele grădiniţe din Bucureşti, la serbări poate veni un singur părinte.\"
http://www.realitatea.net/parintii-...-de-craciun--din-cauza-noii-gripe_691265.html
Asteptam interzicerea participarii oamenilor la Sfintele Liturghii cu ocazia Craciunului si altor sarbatori religioase.
Probabil se va interzice si impartasirea!
microv69
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Sute de persoane stau la coada la Institutul Matei Bals pentru vaccinarea gratuita impotriva gripei porcine
http://www.ziare.com/gripa-porcina/...-gripei-porcine-continua-la-matei-bals-986101
http://www.ziare.com/gripa-porcina/...-gripei-porcine-continua-la-matei-bals-986101
Old DG_mybb_import688
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Toni Tecuceanu a mai fost sigur bolnav si de altceva, nerelevat de presa!
Dar m-am hotarat si mi-am facut vaccinul la medicul de familie, o sa va tin la curent cu ceea ce mi s-a mai intamplat, daca nu mai postez.................................. :32:
Dar m-am hotarat si mi-am facut vaccinul la medicul de familie, o sa va tin la curent cu ceea ce mi s-a mai intamplat, daca nu mai postez.................................. :32:
microv69
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cred ca majoritatea celor decedati au facut complicatii (cei mai multi pulmonare) si/sau mai aveau si alte afectiuni netratate sau despre care nu stiau. la urma urmei, si dintr-o gripa banala se poate muri daca este netratata corespunzator.
valyducu_mybb_import2440
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A aparut in farmacii testul de depistare al virusului AH1N1
http://www.click.ro/actualitate/tot...a-porcina-test-farmacie-vest_0_880711952.html
http://www.click.ro/actualitate/tot...a-porcina-test-farmacie-vest_0_880711952.html
Maddy_mybb_import1968
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daca tot s-au vandut numai 10 teste...hai in presa cu ele, sa vezi atunci...de doua zile, de cand a fost si pe TV aceeasu stire, pacientii cauta disperati "testul de gripa" iar cine il are isi pune afis mare pe usa......cam ca si cu mastile de protecti acu'cateva luni.valyducu a spus: